SPEAKER_02: 2:17

Hello and welcome to Let's Talk About It Podcast. I am your host, Apostle Rosemary of RCN Ministries and OSGA Apostolic Network, along with my wonderful husband, Apostle Herbie. We are coming to you today with a message that is a very on-time word for the body of Christ, but also for any and everyone. This is something that even the church is dealing with, from leaders right on down to the parishioners. And so this is something that we really need to unpack. I know that many may think it's taboo. It's one of those taboo topics, but we're going to deal with it here on today. At this time, I'm going to turn it over to Apostle Herbie so that he can open us in prayer.

SPEAKER_01: 3:03

Heaven, Father. I thank you, Lord, just for this opportunity. Lord, I thank you for grace and mercy. I thank you for everything that you have done in our life. Hey, Father, we look to the heads to come over. Oh, God, create us a clean heart in your right spirit, God Jesus. Hey, Father. Amen.

SPEAKER_02: 3:27

Amen. All right. So today's message is unpacking mental health and mental illness. This is going to be a series. We're going to, on this first part, part one of the series, we're going to deal with helping you to identify exactly what is the difference between mental health and mental illness. We need to understand that dealing with many may see and think of this to be a taboo subject or a topic. The church needs to be equipped to have the discussions and the training to identify and address these topics. Leaders need to be able to communicate, to understand, and to conduct these conversations and discussions within the church. They look for someone who's able to talk to them, to help them, to help them understand what it is that they're dealing with, what they're having to go through, what issues they're having. The church needs to be the hospital. We need to learn how to deal with these issues. We need to learn how to be equipped with these issues, but we also need to learn how to be able to handle these issues. Why? And how will that happen? That will only help happen through us as a people of God, being equipped, um, getting qualified to understand these issues and moving forth to be a blessing, not just to the people in the church, but also the people outside beyond the four walls of the church. Amen. All right. Let's see here. When we look at the difference, we need to clarify the difference between mental health and mental illness. Mental health does not equal mental illness. We often hear about mental health and mental illness that gets thrown together a lot. It gets mashed together as if it's one identifying factor, it's one ailment, it's one illness, but it's not. We often hear these things. And so this is why Apostle Herbie and I are dealing with this on today. There is a stigma on mental health that anyone suffering from mental health automatically they they need, they are it's they're dealing with some type of psychosis, or um, they need to be put in a psychiatric hospital, or they are having erratic um behavior, they're violent, and they're dealing with depression or oppression. And automatically people think that the youth can't have these problems or suffer from mental health. There are so many youth, there are so many young people that are dealing that are battling um mental health, and a lot of this is stemming from different types of drugs, alcohol, different abuses that they're going through, that they try to numb what they're feeling. And I want to kill another devil. Just because you're in the church, just because you're saved, does not mean that you don't need counseling. It does not mean that you do not need to unpack and deal with some past traumas, some past hurts, some past rejections. A lot of these things lead to mental health issues, and they can also lead to mental illness if it's not dealt with. What is mental health? Mental health is a state of well-being where a person recognizes their abilities, um, that they can cope with the stress, they can't cope with the stresses of life. Um, they have issues with the rook working productively, um, they can't maintain a healthy relationship, and they can they find themselves many times not being able to function within society to contribute um to their communities. Mental health is also a spectrum. We're going to turn this part over to Apostle Herbie. We're gonna we're gonna deal with the four um parts of your mental health exists on a spectrum. The spectrum deals with healthy, reacting, injured, and ill. And it deals with self-care and social support with the healthy and the reacting, and it deals with the professional care of someone that's injured or ill. Go ahead, Apostle.

SPEAKER_01: 8:33

Oh, we have the um um um normal functioning normal mood, um, um calmness and the ability to take things in stride. A good sense a good sense of humor, good performance, being in control. Then you have um a normal um a sleep pattern, a few sleep um difficulties, being physical well, um, having a good energy level, being um physically and socially active, limited or no alcohol use or grabbing.

SPEAKER_02: 9:48

And then you have reaching is um reacting, um common and reversible distress, being um irritatable or impatient, being nervous, being sad or overwhelmed, expressing displaced, um sarcasm, sarcasm, sarcasm, procrastination and forgetfulness, forgetfulness, having trouble, sleeping, having insertive thoughts, intrusive thoughts, having nightmare, having muscle, tension or headaches, having low energy, discrete, decreased activity or socializing, um regular but controlled alcohol use or gambling. We look at the professional care for the injured as well as the ill. When we look at the injured, it is dealing with significant functional um impairment, um, which are anger, anxiety, uh, pervasive sadness, or hopelessness. We also begin to look at, I'm sorry, this graph is something, y'all. Um a negative attitude, poor performance, or workaholic um behavior. And you know, let's let's pause right there for a moment. Um, many people do not understand that when you find someone who uh are always constantly jumping from one thing to the next, they can't seem to stay focused. It's almost like they have some type of ADHD, and I'm not trying to be funny or ADD. Um, they're all over the place. One month they're doing this function, the next month they're doing something new, but they can't seem to stay focused. Um, that deals with um mental health. Um, that is also a telltale sign of someone who needs to unpack, someone who needs to deal with some past trauma, some past hurts, or some things that even down to rejection, some things that they're dealing with. So we begin to um look at, like it says, with the um significant functional impairment, and remember we're under the professional care, um, which is um anger, anxiety, pervasive sadness, um, or hopelessness, a negative attitude, poor um performance, or workaholic. So they're either performing poorly or they're a workaholic. They're always in that do and and birth and build, and um, they're always constantly doing something. They're all over the place, literally. They're they can't stay, they can't stay focused. Um, poor um concentration or decision making, um, restless or disturbed sleep, um, recurrent images or nightmares, increased aches and pains, increased fatigue, avoidance, withdrawal, and increased alcohol use or hard-to-control gambling. Um, these are some ways that people that are dealing with um this type of um mental health, um, these are the spectrums where they are. When we're dealing with the ill part, um there's it becomes a clinical disorder. You have severe and persistent functional impairment. There is um those those that are dealing with it are angry, they suffer outbursts or aggressiveness, um, excessive anxiety or panic attacks, um, depression or suicidal thoughts, excessive um insubordination, they're always out of control, they don't want to listen, they don't want anyone to tell them anything. Um, just just reading this, um, you can, I'm pretty sure you can probably even know some people, even in the church leaders, that you can kind of identify that are dealing with some of these. Then, if these are some things that you see some of your congregants, um, some of your sheep dealing with, then you need to definitely um make sure that you um initiate a mental health um training there in your church so that you can become effective and also equipped to deal with these things within your own church and ministries and train others in the church that are on your ministry team as well to be able to deal with these things. Um, so then we get to an inability to perform duties, controlled to an inability for them to control their behavior or their concentration. They can't concentrate, an inability to fall asleep or stay asleep, sleeping too much or too little, um physical illnesses, constant fatigue, not going out or um not answering the phone. And again, they always revert back to alcohol or gambling addictions and other addictions. All right, mental health is multi-dimensional. Hold on, affecting us emotionally. I'm sorry, my thing is all over the place, um, psychologically and socially, and sometimes sometimes even physically. So there are four different areas that mental health affects us as a people, and those areas are what I just read to you all. Um, there those are the four areas um emotionally you're affected, um, psychologically, socially, and yes, even sometimes physically. Um, the quality, hold on just a minute. My my tablet is acting crazy in my computer screen here. Give me a moment here. I want to make sure I get all of this information for you guys. Now that is just sad, it's not moving. Okay. I may have to look down a few times because my notes here that I have up in my screen is not sliding the way I need it to slide. So let me go to my tablet and we're gonna keep going forth because I know that the enemy doesn't want this word out. Yeah, the quality of our mental health helps determine how we think, how we feel, and how we act. Um, first of all, mental health is a state, but it's not static. At any given point, we can fall on um either side of the spectrum, experiencing either optimum mental health or poor mental health. That's when you hear the terminology medically, when they say that when someone um is uh manic. Um, when they're manic, that means that they're they're going through some things at this point, they're ill. At this point, they're suffering greatly. At this point, um, they're they're episodes that they're having, a manic depressant is a terminology you will hear people use um when they're dealing with psychosocial things, and they'll be dealing with um when someone becomes manic, it means that whatever it is that they're suffering from mentally, um whatever type of mental health or mental illness that they're dealing with, it becomes overbearing for them. So then they're in overdrive. Manic, they're in overdrive. Now we're manic, okay? So now we're what it what has called you to become manic. And so these are some areas we need to uh understand. All right, sorry about that. I hit the key. Um, so then we understand that contrary to popular demand, mental health um isn't this far-fetched phenomenon. Only people with mental illnesses um know that's not so, and we're experiencing that now. It looks different for each of us, but we all have mental health, it's part of it's part and parcel of the human experience. What influences mental health? I'm gonna give this to Apostle Herbie here, and again, we've got our tablet out too because the computer is freezing for some reason here. Hold on just a moment.

SPEAKER_01: 18:32

Our mental health flux is in response to several individual and environmental factors, many of which we we encounter in daily life. There are several individual biological logical and physicians physically factors at play, including including um genetics, genetics, and substance use and or abuse, environmental factors like a strong support system, good physical health, quality, education, and regular committees involvement can help keep us on it on the positive side of mental health, sick crowd. Factors like stress, um, poverty, poverty, poverty, discrimination, violence, and and even natural disasters, on the other hand, can push us in in the direction of poor mental health.

SPEAKER_02: 20:08

Okay, then I'm I'm gonna put my um blue uh blue light glasses on to help me for the glare. My eyes are tired. Um, so we begin to look at the factors affecting um mental health, and we're going to start with the psycho-social. When we look at the psycho-social, psychology, psychological, excuse me, psychological, um, it starts, we've got to deal with the whole person. So we've got the psychological, and then we've got the physical. On one side of the of the of the chart, we begin to understand that psychological deals with the early childhood experiences, the stress, the coping skills, the life experiences, the social support, the relationships, the trauma, and the sexuality. These are areas of the psychological makeup of someone's identity and who they are. Um, these are the factors that mental health can affect. The different things that you've gone through in your childhood experience can affect your mental health. Um, it can be from stress affect your mental health, your coping skills, your life experience, and your um social support affects mental health. Um, your relationships, your trauma, and also sexuality affects mental health. There are a lot of people that are dealing with different things. And you know, whenever Apostle Herbie and I, we have to deal with this, we always go back to scripture. And when we're counseling, we let people know exactly what the word of God says when it comes to sexuality, what the word of God says about anything that we're counseling, we're always going to refer back to the word. So, leaders, if you're counseling someone on mental health and you've already gotten equipped, you've gotten the tools that you need, stay grounded and stay focused on the word. Always back up your counseling sessions with the word of God because it is written in the word. Um, when you deal with the physical part of the mental health, the factors that affect that. It can be chronic illnesses, it can be a nutritional issue, um, it can be a slate, a sleep or sleep deprivation issue, it can be movement, inflammation, physical trauma, or even environmental toxins that are affecting um one's physical um factors for mental health. When we deal with lifestyle, um we can look at um these areas of drug and alcohol use, unemployment, and low socioeconomic. Excuse me, I got tongue-tied. So those are the factors affecting mental health. Um, while they can um have some influence, it's important to know that being exposed to negative factors doesn't necessarily mean you're sentenced to experiencing poor mental health or developing mental illness. Um, in some in the same vein, um through experience, um, people with the best of environments also with the best support systems, strong support systems, are just as capable of experiencing mental health challenges. Um, and people, it's hard for people to believe how can someone who was raised, say, with a silver spoon in their mouth versus someone who's born in poverty, how is it that they're suffering and dealing with the same issues, with the same abuses, with the same things mentally? Okay, so we can begin to see here that you might have heard the term described similar mental health conditions, disorders, challenges, and so on. Mental health is the catch-all term we use to cover all of um all of all of that dealing with the mental health, dealing with mental illnesses. Simply put, a mental illness is a criteria based diagnosable condition which significantly disrupts and affects the way we think. The way we feel, the way we behave, and the way we interact with others over an extended period of time. Mental illness goes beyond temporary feelings of stress and sadness we might experience from time to time. Then we begin to understand that when we be when we start dealing with a mental illness versus a mental health, with the mental illness, we begin to notice that these people that are battling mental illness, they begin to have debilitating impacts on various processes or processes which go into healthy mental functioning and can make it difficult to effectively navigate and engage in their own daily life. Unlike mental health, when it comes to mental illness, you either have one or you don't. Mental illness can complicate mental health. Continuous experience or poor mental health without proper support and management can lead to the development of mental illness. This, my people, this is why it's so important. If someone is struggling with mental health, then they need to make sure that they get somewhere. And listen, let me let me kill another devil. Just because you're saved, just because you're in the church, does not mean that you cannot get counseling, that you cannot unpack. You know, this is a lie from the pits of hell. Um, and another thing I want to say is there are a lot of people struggling in the churches. There are a lot of leaders struggling in the churches. I mean, I could go into the numbers of those that have become overwhelmed as leaders, that have committed suicide, that have died early because of physical ailments, because of the stress relation from what they're dealing with and coping with in the church and not having the tools available to be able to effectively um deal with what they're dealing with and to get the help that they need. There is nothing wrong with getting counseling. Let me say that again. We need to stop this madness and this taboo um attitude in the church. And I want to say it why? Because um, let me just give you scripture. The word of God says faith without works is dead. So, you know, we have this saying in the church that has become taboo that, oh no, no, no, you know, the Lord can hear. Yes, God can, yes, God will. But guess what? The word of God says faith without works is dead. So we can have all the faith in the world that we want, but the works is the application of getting the counseling that you need because a lot of people are dealing with trauma. Um, I want to say this and help somebody. There are people that are dealing with trauma that's been bought on, and it's it's a generational curse or something that's happened generation to generation. It can be an absent father, it can be an absent mother, it can be some type of abuse, some type of sexual abuse, it can be all kinds of things. You may have someone in your family that deals with mental health issues, that deals with mental illnesses, anything. And so what happens is rather than allowing them to get the help, we as leaders, as spiritual leaders in the body, we need to get equipped. We need to become effective tools to be able to counter and to be able to counsel and to unpack the issues and the concerns and the things that are troubling those that the Lord has sent us to guard over and protect. Mental illnesses include depression, anxiety disorders, bipolar disorders, eating disorders, and obsessive-compulsive disorder, which is OCD, and they are far more common than you think. The World Health Organization estimates that one in eight people across the globe live with a mental illness. Think about that. That's a lot of people. The majority of them have little to no adequate access to quality mental health care. So, do you see that? And you know what? This causes dysfunction within the family. Because if if you if they have children, someone who's dealing with mental health or mental illness, if they have children, you know what happens? They grow up thinking, hey, it's normal. Hey, it's okay, and it's not. We've got to stop the madness, people of God. The church must be the church, but the church is the hospital for the saved as well as the sinners. Apostle Herbie.

SPEAKER_01: 29:03

We got types of types of mental illness. We have um anxiety disorder, we have depression, depressive disorder, we have bipolar disorder, we got sleep um weight disorder, we have um obsessive compulsive disorder, and we have eating disorder. Okay. The good news is this being diagnosed with a mental illness does not mean you cannot enjoy good mental health. Living with mental illness isn't easy, but that is why um the stigmatism um conversation excuse me, conversation like this matter so much. When we talk about this stuff openly, we open doors for people and ourselves to get the help and support they need to improve their mental health, whatever that is, therapy, medication, lifestyle change or something else. Why all the the why all the Jagon thought it is really that deep. But now you are probably wondering how much any of this stuff even matter in the grand scheme of things. It is hard enough to get people to sit down and have a conversation about mental health. In the first place, we we make such a big fuss over terminology. Why why police how we how we um discuss any how we discuss and already already um have um our own very taboo topic.

SPEAKER_02: 31:53

Okay, those are all valid questions. And in the Caribbean, where these kind of conversations are only recently becoming more frequent, um, it's not just in the Caribbean, but also globally these things, and some um still consider it taboo and they're not discussing it and they're demonizing it, um, and they're not um really dealing with it. Um, because like I said, they always say faith. Um, but again, the word of God says, I'm gonna turn you back to the word, faith without works is dead. We can have all the faith we want, but the application is doing the works. Um, but um we begin to understand that the things that many consider taboo, um, we can begin to unpack um and we can understand now looking back that there is a lot of ignorance um that is attached to um that that that is attached to or stems from generations of not being taught to understand nor to have the knowledge about the topics at hand that deal with mental health and mental illnesses. Um, we fear, we fear them, we fear uh being ostracized because of them. We find ways to demonize them. Um, we open up a book and we begin to say, you know what, um, this doesn't really relate to me, or that's not really something that we want to dev into. Okay, we're gonna deal with um, let's go down here to I'm reading something here. All right, let's let's let's talk about this and then we're gonna go down here. Mental health and mental illness are not the same thing. Mental health is a spectrum, a mental health illness is a specific diagnosable condition. Want to reiterate this to you all. We all have mental health, not everyone has a mental illness. Um, while there are certain risk factors, mental illness does not discriminate. Mental having a mental illness um doesn't mean you can't enjoy um good mental health. Basic mental health literacy is an important part of combating the stigma and discrimination on mental health and mental illnesses. We all have a role to play in the creation of a mental health literacy or literate society. We have to become literate on mental health. Um, what are the symptoms of mental illness? If a friend or a loved one doesn't seem themselves, how do you spot the difference between a bad mood and something serious? Are they feeling anxious or worried? Are they feeling depressed and or unhappy? Um, do they have emotional outbursts? Um, do they have problems sleeping? Um, is there a change in their weight or their appetite? Have they become quiet or withdrawn? Um, have you noticed any type of substance abuse or an increase of a substance abuse? Um are they feeling guilty or worthless? And is there a change or any changes in their behavior or feelings? When we begin to look at some things here, we're going to look at feeling anxious or worried. We all get um worried or stressed from time to time, but anxiety could be a sign of mental health of a mental health disorder if we worry, if the worry is constant and interferes all the time. Um, we can also notice symptoms of anxiety with heart palpitation, shortness of breath, headache, sweating, trembling, um, feeling dizzy, restlessness, even upset stomach. You can may have diarrhea or a racing mind. You can't really control your mind. Your mind is all over the place. Um, another thing um there can be that's um feeling anxious or worried. There can be feelings of depression or unhappy. Signs of depression include uh being sad or irritable for the last uh few weeks or more, lacking um in motivation or energy, losing interest in a hobby or being um teary all the time. Um when someone is depressed or unhappy, or when you you can notice that when you say something, they're very easily offended, they're easy to cry, they're easily uh they their feelings are all over the place. So depression is something that you will notice. Um, emotional outbursts. Go ahead, Apostle.

SPEAKER_01: 36:38

Three, three, okay. Everyone has different moods, but suddenly an um dynamic change in moods, such as extreme distress or anger, can be a symptom of mental illness. Four sleep problems, lasting change to a person's sleep. A sleep pattern could be uh could be a symptom of a mental health disorder. Um for example, exomnia could be a sign of anxiety um anxiety or substance, abuse, sleeping too much or too little could indicate depression or uh or um or a sleeping disorder. Five uh weight or appetite changes for some people um fluctuating weight or rapid weight loss could be one of the warning signs of a mental health disorder, such as depression or an eating disorder. Six acquired or withdrawn, withdrawing from life, especially if this is a major change, could indicate a mental health disorder. If a friend or loved one is regularly um isolating themselves, they may have depression, bipolar disorder, uh psychotic disorder or another mental health disorder. Refusing to join in social activities may be a sign they need help. Certain is substance abuse. Using substance to cope, such as alcohol or drugs, can be a sign of mental health conditions. Using substances can also contribute to mental illness. Sorry, signs of a mental health disorder, such as depression. Your friend or loved one may need help if they are frequently uh criticizing or blaming themselves.

SPEAKER_02: 39:44

When so I'm sorry, that's my granddaughter. I got this on do not disturb.

SPEAKER_01: 39:49

When so uh a person may express express I'm sorry, express a feeling to hurt or or kill themselves. This feeling could mean the person is suicidal and urgent help is needed. Call triple zeros for an ambulance immediately. Number nine, changing changes in behavior or feeling. A mental health disorder may start out as sub change to a person feeling, thinking, and behaviors. Ongoing and significant change could be a sign that they have or are developing a mental health disorder. If someone doesn't seem quite right, it is important to start the conversation about getting help. Type of mental health problems. If you have been diagnosed with a mental health problem, you might be looking for information on your diagnostic treatment option and where to go for support. Our information page will help you learn more.

SPEAKER_02: 41:22

Okay, some of the information is also um available here that we're going to go over. And um I do apologize for our granddaughter, she's three. She likes to FaceTime, even though I have my computer and everything on Do Not Disturb, because they're all Apple products. For some reason, she got through, so I must have her able to pass. So I do apologize for that while we're trying to record here live. Um, and I pray that you all are able to hear. Um, so the first thing is anger, which explains what anger is and how to deal with it in a constructive and healthy way. Anxiety and panic attacks, um, we need to learn how to explain anxiety and panic attacks, including possible causes, and how you can access treatment and support. Um, and we need to include tips for helping yourself and the guides for your friends and family. When we're dealing with bipolar disorder, we need to learn how to explain what bipolar disorder is, um, what kind of treatments are available, and how you can help yourself cope. Um, we have to learn to provide guidance on what friends and families can do to help those that are dealing with these types of ailments. Um, the body dysmorphic disorder um explains what the body dysmorphic disorder is, possible causes, and how you can access treatment and support. Um, this is something here I want to touch on because there are lots of people suffering with this. Um, I have a medical background and I've noticed through the years that I've seen those that were suffering from BDD body dysmorphic disorder. And for some reason, um they thought that they were too fat. They ended up anorexic and all of this and bulimic. And um there's some are still battling with it today that are in the medical field. Um, and they know their diagnoses, they know what they're dealing with, but a lot of this stems from childhood being told that you're too fat or you're overweight, and different things that's happened throughout the traumatic um experiences in their childhoods, um, borderline personality disorder. We need to learn how to explain borderline personality disorder and know um, and also known as emotional unstable personality disorder. So we need to know what depression is, how to explain it. Um, we need to learn how to include the possible um causes and how you can access treatment and support, um, disassociation and disassociative disorder. We need to learn how to explain what it is, um, the possible causes and how you can get treatment for this and support, eating problems, hearing voices, the hoarding, the hypomania and the mania, um, the loneliness, the mental health problems, um, the obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, the panic attacks, the paranoia, the personality disorders, the phobias. Um, and all of these are we need to learn how to explain it, to equip ourselves also to um tell those that are suffering with these um type of ailments um where they can access uh treatment and support, um, the postnatal depression and perinatal mental health, um, the post-traumatic stress disorder, also known as PTSD, the premenstrual dysphoric disorder, the psychosis, the recreational drugs and alcohol addiction, um, the schizoaffective disorder, the schizophrenia, um, the seasonal affective disorder, the self-esteem, self-harm, um sleep problems, stress, suicidal feelings, and the tardiff dyesia and trauma. All of these things, we need to empower ourselves. We need to learn of these things, we need to get equipped to know exactly what they are, how to deal with each one of these, dealing with mental health and mental illnesses, also um letting people know what treatments are available and how to overcome barriers to getting the right support. So at that time, Apostle Herbie and I will stop here for part one. Um, next month, we will deal with um, we're gonna deal with the trauma part of it on part two for the mental health and mental illnesses. Apostle Herbie, is there anything you wanted to add, honey, at this time?

SPEAKER_01: 46:08

But I hope you answer um um whoever um um Who's about to come and view um our podcast? Hope you have it hope to get um uh um um um what should I say being um being helped I don't want to say um um educated but the answer um being helped being helped educated and informed.

SPEAKER_02: 46:42

Yeah informed with all this with all this information the answer what we put it out here so so uh so um and this here is very um informative and um um I hope you know we got something from this amen amen I would like to say personally um that um I have had the mental health issues in my family I'm being transparent um mental illness in my family and families that I've known um from older generations um also um of people that I've known I've worked in mental health I've dealt with that part of the medical aspect as well and so um what I'd like to say is the shame and the stigma that is placed on someone who is dealing with mental health um that goes untreated that leads to mental illnesses um this is something that we can combat as a people of God this is something that we can deal with it when it's mental health when we see someone struggling when we see someone that needs help when we see someone that is crying out for some help. Apostle Herbie and I have been blessed that we have had people um family members leaders that have reached out from other communities as well as other churches and ministries um that we were able to um talk with their their parishioners or their members um because the leadership or um once they had this the parents had gotten to a place where um they had gone to their leaders and and um they had talked with their leaders and and the person that they were trying to help in their family had gotten to the place that they named us they they they they talked very positive about us why because of the relationship we have in our communities and the love that we have for all people the the Christians the professing Christians as well as the sinners beyond the four walls and so when we're blessed to have that type of trust um within our communities from the people that are suffering with mental health issues and you know people they don't want to put the stigma or the word or verbiage mental health on someone who's struggling with alcoholism and alcohol abuse or drug abuse they don't want to put the mental health stigma on it but let's just be transparent let's be real raw and unapologetic right here and let's call it what it is someone that is struggling and battling and they're doing it um they're doing alcohol excessively they're doing drugs excessively it's because they're trying to numb themselves to the hurt to the pain and to the trauma that's exactly what happens something that they're not able to freely talk about. And I want to say right here that it would behoove many family members of these people their loved ones men or women children um whoever it may be loved ones that are suffering with many any type of mental health disorders right now get the help that they need be open-minded um be that that voice that sound voice of wisdom be the person that's able to reach out and say you know what we're gonna get the help we're not gonna let this turn into mental illness we're gonna stop it here in its track we're gonna we're gonna if you're an alcoholic and you're drinking too much even if you're in the church guess what God sees you God wants to heal you God wants to restore you and there is nothing wrong with seeking AA alcohol anonymous if that is what you're dealing with seek the counsel seek the advice but also seek the word of God first seek the word of God seek scriptures pray meditate on the word but also get the counseling that you need and unpack your wounds your scars those very things that have afflicted you so that you can become an effective tool in the kingdom we want to thank you for joining us this morning on Let's Talk About It podcast I am again your host Apostle Rosemary of RCN Ministries and OSGA Apostolic Network along with my wonderful awesome husband Apostle Herbie join us next month for part two of this when we're going to deal with the trauma of mental health and mental illness may God bless you may God keep you may God shine love shine upon you in his grace this day and forevermore God bless you have a great great day and again we do apologize for our three year old granddaughter interrupting us four times with her FaceTime call God bless you have a great day